In the next version of COOP or DIE (released when it will released) I plan to separate challenger players and regular players.
The main idea about this is for preserve the "challenge" aspect of the mode and prevent regular players to give powerful items or act like body guard for challenger players.
Another reason for this modification is that in new release, connection of new regular players in a game will not cause everybody return to the startmap, nor death of a player, and all teleporters will be available for regular players.
I also think that regular and challenger players really don't play with the same feeling, and frequent death of regular players could be penible for challenger players.

What do you think about this ?

I also plan to apply a specific status for challenge players who have finished the game : they will have the possibility to join regular games, acting like regular players, or join challenge game, acting like challenge players, but they can't loose their teleporter.

You also must know that with the new release support for some new map pack will be added, so challenge mode will apply separatly for each pack (one star for each complete pack beaten)

I see it differently, it would be a MILLION times bettter if we could use the expansion packs. I know that what I am about to explain would be impossible without a new coopordie-only engine. But I will tell you what would take an extreme amount of work and may be too much for you, Pat. So here it s:

COOP or DIE is a program you install to your Quake2 fodler, when you open it, you are asked for your user name & password, then you are taken to a chat room thing. Every player would have some letters or a symbol next to their name to show what country they are from. Thwere woudl be the usual coopordie bot that responds wehn you type /help (LOL!). There would be a menu on the left side of this window, NOT the top, NOT the right, and this menu woudl have these buttons: "Play Game", "Schedule", "Player Profiles", "Server Log", "Server Stats", "Downloads", and "Forums", in that order. Pressing the forums button brings you to this Quakesrc forum in a new browser window, the defualt browser for your computer. Downloads button will use the existing chat room window to bring you to a page where you can download coopordie map packs and enter a weekly contest for a new gun or game item. Or we could put the contest section in the schedule section, its your choice. server stats brings you to the same stats page @ coopordie.aftermoon.net but in the same window that the chatroom is using. Server log will show up exactly like the current coopordie chat window at the coopordie website, except you will not be able to chat on it, as you should know, using the same chatroom box window. Schedule woudl be a very usefull function where people make appointments to play really tough missions that would be near-impossible by themselves.

The Player Profiles setion would have the list of players like at the webpage but the people who have beat the game and have beat the most levels will be brought to the top unless the user decides he wants list by country, list by last login, etc. Players win awards for beating the game or mission packs. You start with nothing, when you beat mission 1, you are given a small little award, then when tyou beat mission 2, the award gets bigger, untill it finally gets huge when Makron is defeated. There are 3 full awards you can earn, one for beating the origional Quake2, and 2 for beating the official Quake2 mission packs. When you have all 3 awards, you are crowned the official champion of COOP or DIE. you will keep your champion title for 2 months, after those 2 months it is possible for someone to overthrow you, like a battle between masters, the challenger and the champion would agree to either a 1on1 deathmatch or a test to see who could beat a tough level or mission faster. Of course both players woudl have to agree on which level they ae going to speedrun on. If the challenger and champion can not agree on personal deathmatch or speedrun, you must choose for them, if they can not agree on which level to play then you must choose for them. If both players die trying to beat teh singleplayer level, then we could have an 8 player battle royal, or a 8 player tournament. Players do not HAVE to be the COOP or DIE champion if they do not want to, they could just stay in a high ranking and keep having fun games with other players. No one should be forced to play deathmatch with some one else if they don't want to.

The Play Game menu brings out another submenu, with the selections: "Play Quake II", "Play The Reckoning", "Play Ground Zero", "Play Custom Missions", and "Options". The Options menu lets you select some options, I am not sure what they are because this game is probably going to need a new Q2 engine anyways Play Custom Missions will allow you to play some of those new coop or die missions peopel have been saying they created. These missions are detected to be in your coopordie folder and if present, show up in a smaller sub-menu. Play The Reckoning/Ground Zero only appear if detected by coopordie. The Q2engine is probably going to need to find a way to load the baseq2 folder, the xatrix/rouge folder, then the coopordie folder. The Play Q2 menu will start your normal game of COOP or DIE very much like it is rigth now. Except login will be automatic because this program has already loaded the user&password already, so we can go straight to the startmap.

Gameplay is extremely changed now, when you create a new account, you have the option to play "Easy Mode" and "Normal Mode" You can switch in between both modes at any time you want, but you will not lose any progress on any of them. so for example, you can play through half of mission 4, leave the game, change to easy mode in your profile and beat half of mission 6. go back to normal mode and continue from the half of mission 4. Everyone's game data is stored server-side in a simple text file to save space. Make sure no one hacks your server! While in easy mode, your characer has unlimited lives, does not die and have to restart at the begining of a mission, and does not have to be brougth back to the start map when a new player joins. Easy players can not play with normal players until they choose normal mode from their profile. Easy players et no awards, they only advance in missions and have to use the easy kind of XML rules. Guns are not as easy to find as they normally are, no more free super shotgun, you ahve to do the mission to get it.

I will explain the oteh modes later, I'm getting tired of typing,
-JudicatorOmega

Would the stock mission pack DLLs be usable for this, or would they have to be modified to the point that they couldn't be used with any other server executable?

If there's enough expressed public interest, we could be able to convince id to re-license them under the GPL.

Well, it woudl be really cool if the mod DLLs didn't have to be modified, so that they could be played with normal quake2 engines. But like, theres no freagin way we could put that "-game" parameter twice... wouldn't it be just plain HARD to make 2 mods work together. It would be cool if we could put Ground Zero mod's enemy AI into the regular coopordie game, or we could use that lazarus AI thing in there. You people handle the thinking and coding, I am only a dreamer.

I had the normal mode and challenge mode stuff in my mind but I forgot it already... maybe I'll remember later. I know I had a really good idea about challenge mode having "lives" that you can gain every 2-3 missions you beat. and if you lose all your lives you are brought back to mission 1.

what about the way quake2 proxys like q2admin work?

Here are some answers, but before read, note these points :
- Challenge mode concern only a minority of players, even if they were the people who have played the most COOP or DIE.
- Challenge mode is principally an individual challenge, all the champions have played and beaten the game alone, it's not really coop
- COOP or DIE is not my principal objective, so I don't want to invest too much time on it.

Now some answer, they are not all related to challenge mode. I will probably start a new thread about future of COOP or DIE someday ...


* slash slash : Pat need to work on that *


deathmatch would require dedicated server for being equitable, but the
speedrun is a very good idea !


Good idea, I note it


Hum, the regular mode with the loose of inventory is already enought hard


Well, if I found a way for buying an original copy of these games, and if there is no legal issue (GPL) I will maybe add support for them games on COOP or DIE.


I would like to find an ideal engine and customize it for COOP or DIE, principaly for 2 reasons :
- Create new content (maps, textures ...) with full colors and shaders
- Add specific client side code, like servers ping, anti cheat, better HUD ...
Actually, Quake2Max could be OK regarding it's feature, but it is too slow (90% of COOP or DIE players use standard 1998 Quake2 engine)


Good idea, I note it, but it probably need somebody to manage it


Probably a good idea, and easy to do, maybe a mixed view on the main page, and a separate (with 2 box) on the chat/schedule page


* slash slash : Pat need to finish his work *



I plan to make this sort of feature available throught teleporter (locked or not), and via player profile form.


The initial WorldServer was engine side (version 0.1), but it is too limited, it can only manage login/pass and master server. And XmlRules are 100% dll side.


legal issue


same answer


Maybe interesting way, but I know nothing about q2admin.

Um, you can use the Lazarus AI from the DLL included with my engine, it's been re-licensed under the GPL with David Hyde's permission, and all the Rogue code removed and re-written.

Ho, in our previous discussion I have understand that this part isn't done. Cool, I will look at it.

Is the code for defense turret usable by the players implemented in your dll ? because I'm very intersted by it ...

Yep. that's there, too.

Good luck with your personal projects, Pat.

I have to ask one question: If I send you some of my own coopordie XML files, would you put them up on the rpc.aftermoon.net thingy, so that everyone could play these... They have more enemies, more ammo, and more secret items, more secret messages.

I think Crusard told me he had made some XML files to add secret weapons in high places, but I don't know if he sent them to your or got rid of them, or something.

I find it extremely hard to make XML files that would not make it TOO hard for the coopordie players. I look at the coopordie log and see that people have been dying over the easiest enemies, while people like me are getting raped by grenades.

So if you want to give my XML files a shot, then I could send them to you, I completely understand if you don't want to use them. I could always make my own personal "Quake II - Expert Mode" and keep it in my HD.